HomeLocal NewsSA, Zim at war over generals

SA, Zim at war over generals

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PROSECUTOR-GENERAL Johannes Tomana yesterday warned that a recent South African court ruling compelling South Africa to arrest Zimbabwean military chiefs over the 2008 human rights violations might spark a diplomatic tiff between the two neighbouring countries.

EVERSON MUSHAVA,CHIEF REPORTER

Tomana described the ruling made by South Africa’s Supreme Court of Appeal on Wednesday as “absurd” and showing grave contempt of other countries’ territorial integrity. He said South African courts were behaving as if Zimbabwe was a province of South Africa.

“South Africa cannot arrest Zimbabwe military chiefs without violating the Geneva Conventions. They would be sparking a diplomatic row,” Tomana said, adding Zimbabwe was not a signatory to the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) that the court order referred to.

“Zimbabwe has its own law enforcement systems which have not failed by the way. It is important for nations to respect each other. It is like they are saying they are better than us and can supervise us.”

The South African court ordered the South African Police Services (SAPS) to investigate high-level Zimbabwean security chiefs accused of committing gross human rights crimes in the run-up to the 2008 presidential election runoff.

This followed a petition by the Zimbabwe Exiles Forum and the South African Litigation Centre seeking an order to force the SA police to probe Zimbabwean security officials involved in past human rights abuses.

Tomana added: “The ruling by SA is pushing us to uncomfortable levels. SA should come out open if it still wants diplomatic ties with us. Zimbabwe cannot go and demand to investigate the Marikana murders because SA is a sovereign State. Likewise, SA cannot do the same on Zimbabwe. It is disrespectful,” he said.

According to the landmark ruling, South Africa can now investigate perpetrators of organised torture from Zimbabwe irrespective of whether or not they were physically present in SA. The ruling was premised on the understanding that South Africa is a signatory to the 2002 Rome Statute of the ICC.

The MDC-T, which claims that over 200 of its supporters were killed in the 2008 electoral violence, welcomed the SA court ruling.

“The position of the MDC-T is that, Zimbabweans who were violated by State institutions and officials are entitled to justice. Regrettably, because of the selective application of the law by Tomana, the culprits have not been brought to book,” said MDC-T spokesperson Douglas Mwonzora.

“Therefore, the ruling by SA is most welcome because it ensures justice for the victims. The ruling is justified because of the absence of justice back home. We believe Tomana’s arrogant response is coming from someone who is guilty of ignoring the persecution of Zimbabweans by government and the militia.”

However, Zanu PF secretary for administration Didymus Mutasa yesterday said the party had not yet received the court ruling.

But party leader President Robert Mugabe early this year accused the SA courts of spoiling for a fight with Zimbabwe.

Political analyst Ernest Mudzengi said the order had the potential of damaging diplomatic relations between Harare and Pretoria.

Another political analyst who requested anonymity said no arrests of Zimbabwean security chiefs would be made as long as Zanu PF was in power.

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56 COMMENTS

  1. We repeat, Zimbabwe is not an annexe or extension of South Africa. A mere South African court does not have jurisdiction to try Zimbabweans for crimes purpotedly commited in Zim. That is too ambitious an effort that is backed by the lowlifes, degenerates and pimps i.e. former Rhodies and Boers.

    • It’s always easy to blame others for your problems and troubles. It’s often a wise move though, to take responsibility for your actions, change your ways, and move forward.

      People like you always like to blame white people for your problems, have you ever thought to thank white people for all of their inventions and advancements in technology? I’m not saying that you have to or even should, I’m saying if you are so bent on blaming them for everything, then it’s only fair to thank them for the good they’ve done in this world, such as all of their advancements in communication (internet, telephone), medical technology (x-ray, MRI, heart surgery), travel and transport (airplane, automobile) etc. to name a few.

      • The position by the SA a bench is absurd, insulting, shortsighted and arrogant it is common cause and common knowledge that apartheid was a crime against humanity and grave violation of basic human rights yet noone from the apartheid era has been tried internationally for the violations.Is it not time therefore for one Zimbabwean or group of Zimbabweans to bring before our own Concourt cases of violations committed during apartheid, remember some of the crimes where perpetrated here and issue international warrants against the perpetrators who are traversing the world freely and even against businesses that had links to apartheid. That will jolt these Boers since crimes against humanity refers are not restricted to black on black cases neither are they nullified by internal reconciliation. I am willing to file the papers PG.

    • YOU IDIOT YOU THINK THE GENERALS AND ZPF HAVE THE RIGHT TO KILL, MAIME AND BURN OUT PEOPLE FROM THEIR HOMES ALL BECAUSE THEY SUPPORT THE OTHER PARTY. AND YOU CALL YOURSELVES GOD FEARING. WELL DONE SA

    • Why do you support those killers? When you say ‘we’ who are you representing? The security chiefs have spilled a lot of blood and they continue looting Zimbabwe’s resources day and night. Yet you support them! No wonder our country is in this mess. Its because of fools like you who will even applaud a rapist abusing your own mother. IDIOT

  2. Why do people lyk Changlong worry if they did nothing to their fellowmen? Let them investigate and if there is nothing that happened they will find nothing. If I may ask kuti those vakaitwa ‘short nelong sleeve’ do not exist? Is it just a figment of imagination of the MDC?

  3. South Afrika(ans) is simply in the wrong hands, in fact the hands never changed,…we all know that!
    I hope black people will wake up in 2014!
    Lets ask our most abled prophets who runs SA!!!

  4. @mwana wapresident you have clearly missed the point. This is about national sovereignty & territorial integrity. Submitting ourselves to the south african legal system for crimes allegedly committed in this country would set a dangerous precedent not just for Zanu pf but all proud Zimbabweans. How the likes of yourself & Mdc-T can advocate this madness which clearly compromises our autonomy is in my opinion treasonous. I wont vote zanu pf but I strongly believe in protecting our borders & independence.

  5. When did Tomana move to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs? And what business of his is it if SA courts interpret their own law on their own books? SA is an ICC member and they are simply living up to the dictates of their obligations to this body..Perhaps he should instead tell the public what he is doing to prosecute the 2008 murders, the constituency development fund theft….and his wild goose EU case and leave the South Africans alone? Or could it be SA does not have sovereignity but Zimbabwe does?

  6. Changlong,jinda ramambo and other idiots muri macondom ezanu pf,no matter what you say or do once those military chiefs of yours set their feet on the South African soil they must be arrested,ngavagare kuZim kwavo hapana enebasa navo,remember there is democracy in Mzansi….so beware .What sovereignity do you want tell us vanhu vachidzanyirirwa day in and day out idiots….batai vanhu.South Africa AHOY!!

    • mar wakadhakwa wanzwa. there is no democracy in Mzansi believe you me. ANC has been in power for how long? What happened to Julius Malema and Monthlante when they challenged Msholozi? Who rules there?

    • QE girl killself
      Injecting new life into livestock
      ‘ANC forgave apartheid killers, but not me’
      November 29, 2013 International
      Julius Malema

      Julius Malema

      POLOKWANE — EFF leader Julius Malema accused the ANC yesterday of refusing to forgive him while they did so for those who killed anti-apartheid activists. “Why would they go out to destroy a young man?” he told supporters after appearing in the Polokwane High Court.“Why did they take everything from him and still protected those who killed our people? Where are the people who were hanging revolutionaries in Pretoria?”

      The expelled former African National Congress Youth League leader was speaking after failing to persuade the court to withdraw charges of fraud, corruption, money-laundering, and racketeering against him. He allegedly made nearly R4m from corrupt activities.

      Malema denied committing any serious crime, adding that his only offence was to express views that differed from those of the ANC.

      He said his political party, the Economic Freedom Fighters, was the only solution to poverty.

      “They do not have charges against us. This is a political prosecution for holding different views. They (the ANC) disagree with what we represent and therefore manipulate the prosecution.”

      The court ruled that the case against him would go ahead next year as scheduled, unless the National Prosecuting Authority decided to drop the charges against him.

  7. They do not deny that the allegations were committed but that SA does not have jurisdiction over Zimbabwe. something to ponder about.

  8. Apatheid South Africa, crazy . Beware of Julius Malema , he is going to emancipate Black South Africans (Azanis).

  9. Poor south africa!Having money does not mean you have more brains.this is one of the stupid decisions of all time and stupid mwonzora swallows it.I know mwonzora is a politician but sinking this low will come to haunt you in the future

  10. listen guys why are not coming to terms with our failures ,. Zim and S A must co-exist they need each other more so Zim is landlocked . Some political statements will cause untold suffering on ordinary people. Consider how many people are surviving from buying and selling from S A? . Stop reckless statements

    • No. Clearly your knowledge of politics is small. You need to understand that the ICC is the European way of killing our leaders. Anytime an outside country wants to prosecute your leaders ask how this has come about and who is the controller. South Africa only appears to have money because they are the hand of the Rothschild banking cartel. South Africa is currently in the bent over position getting raped and the fact that you don’t see it is worrying.

      Why do you think nobody went to jail for apartheid? Why do you think South Africans have no land? Did you think they would free Mandela without making a deal? c’mon man.

  11. Its not surprising to hear Mwonzora’s stupid comments.The man seem to have studied his law degree at night, where everything was dim. He is known for embezzling clients trust fund, ill advising Tsvancry, behind most of the stupid clauses in the new constitution, and now he surrenders his manhood to a S.A white-man. His slave ancestry background still runs in his blood and he so wishes to die a slave. To hell with the SA Boer court ruling , its a non event.

  12. Tomana is saying zim is not an extension of SA but he is not saying the generals innocent.so if they are guilty let them be sentenced here.

  13. Since when have military generals become diplomats.whoever appointed this moron to be head of prosecutions need their head examined.by the way ndibaba vachatunga vane pfungwa dzaunyana kunge face yavo

  14. Guys what are you crying about.if we see a person raping a 4year old in zambia and the zambian police doing nothing about it ,should we ignore it because we are in zim? No ways once the rapist crosses the zambezi we should arrest him..

    its not our business when people are throwing parties in zambia but it becomes our business when people are being oppressed we cant sit on our hands and leave it like that….

    thats why they call us Africans

    • When Africa is run by Africans I will agree with you. But they don’t. Zimbabwe is run by Africans and we have to keep it that way by all means necessary. South Africa raped and killed blacks more than you will ever know. Nobody was prosecuted. Wake up!!!! Wake up!!!!

  15. Shame, shame, shame on you Azania!!!! Who constitutes your Supreme Court. Your rainbow nation. What rain_bow do you represent. My fellow blacks are in abject poverty and they want to pretend as if they share the glitter of Joburg. Oh Lord have mercy on my poor fellow blacks. Anywhere I watched the “Big Debate” in Cape Town and was pleased seeing blacks unmasking former Rhodesians who are trying to instill fear into blacks that if they do it the MUGABE WAY then Hunger will visit them as if whites have been feeding us since creation. Shame, Shame, Shame on your Azania.

  16. Listen. All those people,including generals,that murdered,maimed,torched houses of opposition supporters need not worry. As long as you did it on behalf of ZANU PF,you are safe. Tisu tiri kutonga. Tisu takarwa hondo.

    • did you fight for yourself or for the country. Just because I don’t agree with SA involving themselves in Zim business I feel we as Zimbabweans need to respect each other otherwise we are just the same as the colonists.

  17. If its true that 200 MDC-Dogs were killed in 2008 that’s very very nice. Ridding the country of traitors who want to sell the country for a song is no crime at all. Big up the Generals. Those who are still with the party of thugs and traitors must suffer the same fate. Patriotic Zimbabweans should not just standby and watch while some elements try to reverse our hard-won independence. Pasi nevatengesi, especially their misguided and brainwashed leadership. Ichoooooooo!!!!!!!!!.

    • Mr Rwizi i am sorry to say this vanhu ndevaMWARI iye oga MWARI ndiye anekodzero yokuzorodza mweya wake kana nguva yake yakwana zvino imi kana mukati vanhu vakasikwa nemufananidzo wake iyeMWARI they are dogs in another way youre saying MWARI is a dog beware hasha dzaMWARI.

  18. they must deal with those thugs raping six week old babies,perpetrators of xeonophobia and the killers of 34 miners who are roaming free in their own country.Zim is not an extension of SA

  19. Well come Rejoice Ngwenya, I was wondering where you wandered off to. You are right the “Guilty are very afraid”.
    I don’t think Zimbabwe is a sovereign state any more, the state autonomy flew away since the State started killing and maiming its own people. Someone else with a brain had to come in and defend the defenceless, comfort the poor, strengthen the weak, encourage the oppressed and give hope to the hopeless black Zimbabweans. If any Zimbabwean has any pending apartheid case against the White regime they are free to sue either in Zimbabwe or travel to South Africa and get their justice and reparations, or if there are former Rhodesians living in SA who committed crimes during the war, why doesn’t Tomana raise these cases with SA public prosecution for trial and hence justice? The issue of sovereignty does not obstruct or precede justice especially for Zimbabwe, which has got none of that.

  20. NGAASUNGWE AND LET JUSTICE PREVAIL,VANA VAKANDOPREA DRC HAPANA CHAKAITWA.TOMANA NGAREGE MAVOVO, KANA VASINA MHOSVA DZAKAPARWA VANOCHEMEI

  21. ko nhaimwi,pane akamboona any of the Zim generals achiuraya munhu muZim?? This decision by the Sa courts creates a bad precedent i tell u. It promotes the culture of arresting before investigating. Wat wil happen to defence pacts btwn Sa n Zim,hw wil the generals meet?? I smell a setup….Icho!

    • parapinda, your concerns do not precede justice. There is a dosier of allegations this court of appeal was presented during hearing of the matter. Let the wheels of justice roll out for Zimbabweans, the defence pact is an agreement that defend justice for both countries, but if there is evidence against zimbo generals murdering citizens they are supposed to protect then either the justice of Zimbabwe or SA should not protect them. They should face their accusers in a court of law.

  22. Vanhu ngavasungwe.To you Tomana dont complain zvemangamanga vanhu vakaurayiwa iwewe nana Chihuri makapeta maoko.Maiti zvaiguma nepi.

  23. The word sovereignty or withdrawing from icc does not mean you can kill, maim or torture citizens and expect neighbouring state to watch and keep quiet .no dzimwe nyika dzinopindira uchida usingadi. masoja edu akafawani KUDRC ikozvino mamwe KUMOZAMBIQUE. anditi tinenge tapindira saka S.A haina kukanganisa ngaipindire

  24. thnk you SA Zim courts are doin nthn coz they are under Zanu they cnt investigate themselves. Thank you good job dnt stop there we are tired of these killers. We can’t talk of our freedom and independence while under Zanu Pf.

  25. It is insightful to note that not a single person was arrested in SA during that wave of xenophobic attacks that killed a number of Zimbos. Could it be that this Generals thing is an attempt at regime change? I think so!

  26. dont get stuck! from nationalism to internationalism! zim does not exist in a vaccum it is part of the sadc, Africa and the globe! to talk of national sovereignnity too much makes myopic rats to forget they are part of the globe! shame!

  27. To those fools who are saying there is no democracy in Mzansi my question is how many presidents have come and gone peacefuly since SA ‘s independence as compared to our dead zim which has known one president a son of a Malawean migrant carpenter brought in the country by missionaries?Tomana must be also be arrested for shielding these thugs misquandering as generals. let the music begin for the thugs.

  28. Foolish colonel Zuma does not control courts and he does not own white people ,The problem with you zanu people is that you think black people are bobojans every thing they do they must be told by whites. But we know the bobojans are zanu supporters for they behave like bobojans during elections including hiring white crook from Isreal to rig elections for them .Mind you no white who told me to say this .

  29. Well-done South Africa. Arrest those murderers once they enter SA. They loot our riches and spend the money there because they are barred from Europe and America. I am sure they even smuggle diamonds, gold, ivory into SA. They are as bad as Joseph Kony.

  30. The Prosecutor-general leaves us wondering whether he know anything about the law. the decision by the SA Supreme Court is abut investigating the cases of torture, not prosecuting the perpetrators. If the Tomana cannot accurately represent the actual decision, he should admit his inability to be a neutral law officer, admit his biases, and resign as would be required under the constitution he has sworn to uphold

  31. I wonder where the diplomatic tiff with RSA will come from. This is not a decision of the RSA govt but of an SA court. PG must not blow this out of the legal dormain it belongs to and make it political. The RSA Govt was not even a complainant/plaintiff in this case. If the PG is not happy with the court decision he must take legal action, not political or diplomatic action. The decision doesnt even say the SA Police shall come to Zim to investigate. To those who bore the brunt of the violence this is welcome since the Zim system has failed to deal with the cases, although it might not be an effective way of bringing the needed justice as the culprits will simply avoid arrest by not setting their feet in RSA

  32. welcome news indeed vachamama chete vakapisa dzimba dzedu nekuuraya hama dzedu vachiti zvichapera.remember chivi hachirovi.thank u supreme court of SA dai vangosunga zvese nechidhara chacho and the fake war vets

  33. Judges are employed to interprete and apply the law to the letter. Their job has nothing to do interpreting diplomatic or political ties. These are professional judges not political ones, the likes of Bhunu , Chidyausiku

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